Rayner 00:00

Hey, hey, what’s up, my friend? So today we’ve got Oliver Kel on the show.

What’s interesting about Oliver is that he took part within the US investing championship in 2020 during COVID-19.

Guess what?

He got here in first place, right?

With a staggering return of 941.1% in a 12 months.

Okay, that is like having a $10,000 trading account in January after which turning that account into $100,000 by the top of December.

Crazy stuff, right?

Should you wanna connect with Oliver, I’ll put his social media profile in the outline below.

But moving on, right?

Here’s what we covered, right, during my conversation with Oliver.

The very first thing we spoke about is market making, because Oliver’s, that was a market maker for the Pacific Stock Exchange.

We spoke about market making because I think that is something that many traders are usually not aware of.

Then we speak about how institutions, how do they trade with size unless you understand what to search for and after all, Oliver shares, what is the thing to search for.

Then he also talked about his early failures in stock trading and the teachings behind them.

He shares his favorite trading setup, and the things he looks for in a chart, and provides us a ton of trading examples, including his entries, stops, targets, and his top process behind taking those trades.

All this and more in today’s conversation.

Sounds good?

Then watch it without delay.

Rayner 01:29

At first, Oliver, I just need to say an enormous thanks because ever since I saw the World Cup trading championship, you may have 941% return.

Why I’m saying thanks is because that sets an enormous inspiration to loads of retail traders on the market to know that anyone with none backing, without working for banks, or institutions, also can achieve such trading results.

So I think that may be a testament to a retail trader that they’ve the potential to attain big things in the event that they set their mind to it.

Thanks for setting that benchmark being such an inspiration to loads of us on the market.

Thanks.

Oliver 02:11

Sure.

Thanks.

I used to be just doing my best.

Rayner 02:13

So let’s form of like, because I’ve heard you on a quite a few podcast, like I feel on a Trader Liar, etc.

I feel you mentioned your father was also a trader on the Pacific Stock Exchange, if I’m not fallacious, as a market maker.

Did I get it right?

Oliver 02:29

Yeah.

Rayner 02:30

I feel plenty of the listeners who’re tuning in here today, probably are wondering what exactly a market maker does, right?

Something we do not hear often as of late.

Oliver 02:37

Sure, so, yeah, I mean, I went to the ground with like literally no money roughly, and you understand, just form of built his business, and essentially is what market making is in.

So my dad was the lead market maker in Lockheed Martin, you understand, within the early 90s, after which he was the LMM in Microsoft, which was, you understand, within the late 90s, you understand, early 90s or so, you understand, pretty hot stock.

Essentially what a market maker does, the simplest approach to describe it, is that, when any individual desires to sell, they’re obligated to supply a bid.

When any individual desires to buy, they’re obligated to supply a suggestion to sell.

The way in which they’re in a position to try this is that they hedge their positions with options.

My dad was a Delta neutral trader, essentially meaning that he didn’t trade directionally.

He, you understand, created a market and hedged his deltas to remain neutral and the thought of it was that he was in a position to provide liquidity and create a stable market.

Now I feel there’s so much more to it than that.

Once I talked to my dad about it, he said things that I do not think loads of options traders say today, like…

He traded reversals and conversions and stuff like that I do not entirely know what all meaning, although he’s explained it to me.

We trade much otherwise.

But the best way I form of give it some thought is that he was in a position to sometimes generate profits on options to Kang after which stop.

He’s told me times when he was long stock and hedged with the choices.

The choices decayed and he made money there and the stock went up and he made money there.

I feel that is essentially how he made money.

Occasionally, I do know that he did take some shots.

I do know certainly one of his biggest trades ever was I suppose it was TWA Trans World Airlines, which was an old airline.

They were around after I was a child, but they’re no more anymore, he made an infinite amount of cash when I feel they got bought out or something.

I do not know all the small print, but occasionally he would take trades, like directional trades.

But I’d say 95-98% of what he did was just make markets in Lockheed after which Microsoft.

I mean, he just about traded one ticker and did stuff outside of that. You understand, he did form of view it somewhat more as form of speculating like…

“Hey, I feel this stock goes up”

But you understand, he would do it with a small amount of his capital.

You understand, the core of what he did was make markets in those two stocks.

Rayner 06:02

I’m curious, right?

Because you understand, back then after I was a prop trader, I even have seen traders doing something similar where they only, the futures market, right?

They only queue on the bid and the offer.

If the market, for instance it’s — form of just choppy range bar just goes up, goes down, not going anywhere.

Yeah, the market maker, makes pretty good money, but when the market starts to trend in a single direction, that is where the trader starts taking losses, right?

So while you mentioned that your father used to do something along those lines, he hedged it with options.

So how does using options help to hedge if the market does get directional, hedge the position?

I do not think you possibly can do it near one hundred percent. Perhaps hedging might be 70, or 80% at best.

Oliver 06:39

So, I mean, look, in the event you were to confer with someone who understood options, which I’m not that guy.

I just form of understand it from a high level.

But your delta is basically how much your option is moving relative to the underlying stock.

So, the thought is that he was hedging his deltas. So depending on different…

Again, we’re somewhat out of my wheelhouse, but depending on various things like time decay and things like that, the volatility of the choice relative to the underlying.

The concept was that he was all the time hedged one-to-one with the delta, the deltas of his position after which the opposite thing that I feel could be very vital to spotlight is the markets were much different.

So my dad worked on the ground and he did what was called open outcry.

The markets weren’t 100, they weren’t electronic they usually became electronic just about near the top of his time on the ground.

So, there have been times, I mean, I wasn’t there, but there have been times where

I do not know who would really like, let’s just say an establishment — Hey, buy me 50,000 Microsoft at X price.

They were good to get filled at that price, however the market had already moved like a degree.

So it was like free money.

In that sense, I mean, I do not know the way often that happened.

I feel as time went on and markets became increasingly efficient, it happened less and fewer.

But I possibly, you understand, I feel initially of my profession, my dad had some ups and downs and almost almost didn’t make it.

But, possibly within the mid-eighties, late eighties, you understand, he was doing well.

I do know the crash and in 89 was like certainly one of his best days ever.

It might have been higher. I mean, you understand, I form of know that high-level details on the story, but he was set as much as where he could have made loads of money on that.

But, you understand, something happened, he blames Galtman.

But, you understand, something happened where he needed to, you understand, hedge his deltas.

Then if he hadn’t needed to make that adjustment into the garments, he would have made loads of money on Black Monday.

But, you understand, like. So I do not know exactly how all that position happened or was placed on, but it surely has to do with providing a market to those that desired to buy and sell after which hedging your deltas.

I mean, that is what he did for years.

Black Scholes model type stuff after which really the best way I give it some thought is that as computers form of got here into the market they usually made the markets more the choices strike.

You went from having stocks with like five, $10 strikes to love $1 strikes.

You understand, things became more efficient.

It made it so much harder for a vanilla options market maker to generate profits.

You then also began to compete with computers.

You then form of lost that.

I feel

I do not know this, but I need to say even within the mid-90s, there was still some free money within the open outcry every now and then.

Nowadays, because well, I have never been into the ground.

The PSC is now an Equinox, a gym.

But I did go into the ground with my dad in 2009 or 2010.

It was still there.

The PSE became the ARCA exchange.

 When the NYC bought the PSE, it became ARCA.

There have been some younger guys, probably around my age now, who were the sons of fellows my dad had traded with.

Nothing was occurring there.

It was like perfectly quiet.

Computers were running every thing even me,

You understand, I probably went to the ground possibly like eight or 10 times, realistically, within the time my dad worked on the ground.

Um, and it seemed weird to me.

I comprehend it gave the impression of really, really weird for my dad, but I also comprehend it was like emotional form because, uh, you understand, the flooring was like, it had that form of locker room type feel, you understand, you were form of within the pits with just like the same guys bumping shoulders on daily basis.

You understand, like I feel he had loads of, loads of, you understand, deep, good memories from working down there.

Whereas like now, like me, I straight to my house on the seat.

I mean, I’m in a discord with two or three guys.

But it surely’s just much different like there’s not that very same camaraderie component I feel that he had.

I did prop trade my first 12 months or two.

I feel form of while you’re on the desk with other guys, there’s you understand, definitely some camaraderie.

But so far as how I trade now, you understand, that does not exist.

So it’s just, you understand, it’s much different.

I form of went on a tangent there, but I’m just form of occupied with, form of how he traded and the way all of it was.

He would tell me…

“You know, he didn’t spend loads of time, you understand, talking to people on the ground”

You understand, my dad had five kids and he was like, you understand, I went there to work.

I used to be focused. You understand, he was good at doing quick math in his head and unfortunately, computers were quicker than him.

But so he was focused all day, but I just know, because even now, my dad’s in his late 70s, he’ll get along with loads of the blokes from the ground.

A number of the guys from the ground, like I call my uncle, although they are not, but it surely’s similar to a really tight, tight-knit form of environment.

Probably a part of the explanation for that’s realistically cause not loads of people made it still.

I do know quite a few guys, my dad in the long run being certainly one of them who possibly had long careers after which form of got washed out the backside.

So, I do not know, it’s just much different than the way it is for me.

But it surely’s pretty cool, you understand?

The ground was great, the energy was awesome.

I mean, I used to be only possibly 10 years old after I would go down there.

It was a cool spot.

Rayner 14:35

That was an incredible sharing, right?

Although you went off-tension, I feel it’s something that loads of traders as of late, right?

We cannot get to experience it ever again, right?

Due to, you understand, the advancement in technology.

In order that’s form of like a really nice glimpse into what it’s like, right?

Trading within the 70-80s.

This sort of jogs my memory, I feel there’s like a documentary called, I feel from the moment it’s called, FLOAT, right?

It is a transition of how the large traders transit to electronic trading and the way loads of them just didn’t make it.

So it was quite an interesting documentary.

Unsure in the event you watched that one, but yeah, something that got here to my mind, right?

Oliver 15:05

Yeah, I have never seen it, but I just know because I do know loads of these guys that trade with my dad, that only a few of them were in a position to transition to electronic trading.

I do know of 1 guy who has made an exorbitant amount of cash now, but I do know even he knew when he transitioned from the ground to electronics and he’d done thoroughly on the ground.

He worked within the Microsoft pit.

He went through like a 3 or four-year period where he didn’t know easy methods to generate profits.

I feel he form of reinvented himself with like a wholly different way of approaching the market.

My dad still trades, I mean, my dad’s like retired now, but he still traded off the ground for probably one other, I do not know, possibly 10 years, if I needed to guess, probably up until like 2012.

Perhaps in those last couple of years, I feel he form of realized that he needed to hold it up.

But I’m not so sure.

I mean, I’m not positive, but I’m not so sure.

They were having the identical success.

No, not the identical success as on the ground.

It was just a unique, totally different ballgame. Right.

Rayner 16:26

So possibly now let’s form of take a step back away out of your dad and speak about you, right?

I need to learn more about your childhood.

So possibly in a single sentence, how would you describe your childhood?

Oliver 16:38

I mean, look, I had a great childhood, but it surely was form of like a tale of two stories, I suppose you might say.

So, you understand, my dad, I didn’t know if it was awful because my dad blew up or what, but my parents ended up splitting up.

I feel it had something to do with that.

I lived in Marin County in California, which is a really, very high-end, very nice place to live.

I feel we had a fairly good, but while you’re like 10-12 years old or lower than that, you form of don’t think like that.

You are just a child and on daily basis is great.

But then my parents split and we moved back East and things were so much harder.

We realized how good we had it after that.

So, I, after I was a child, probably began working after I was possibly eighth grade or ninth grade.

I worked at a moving company and played loads of sports.

That was form of our thing as all of us played sports.

We were good athletes and we began working because we form of needed to.

Our summer league basketball coach was, he owned the moving company we worked at.

You understand, starting away, I do not know if I’d say a fatherly figure, but he was definitely form of like a definite disciplinarian in our life.

You understand, he didn’t take loads of crap and you understand, since right highschool, after which I ended up playing football in college, which was good because I got into a fairly good school, pretty like due to sports and that was good.

I made some great friends there.

Probably the guy who’s the explanation that I trade, a man who played football with me, he ended up prop trading right out of faculty.

He was a 12 months or two older than me.

You understand, I already form of knew what trading was simply because, you understand, my dad did it, but it surely was not something I wanted anything to do with, you understand, form of for, you understand, you possibly can form of fill within the blank there as to why.

But, you understand, as I form of got to my senior 12 months, I used to be a competitive guy and I went to a extremely good school.

So I feel like my school form of pushed you towards, go be an investment banker, go be certainly one of those varieties of high-end finance jobs, because those varieties of corporations recruited at my school.

You wanted that job because that was just like the glitz and glamour job.

I could not get any of those jobs and I noticed that pretty quickly.

I used to be a Southern student, I had like a 3.0 but I used to be not the guy, you understand, hitting the three.8, 3.9, whatever.

They weren’t going to rent me.

I form of realized that.

So then my options were, you understand, I didn’t know what I desired to do in any respect.

I knew that if I had gotten any job, I used to be competitive and would have done well and I still think if any of those people had hired me, I’d have done well.

But my buddy began sending me a few of the books from the reading list at this prop firm he worked at.

It was, you understand, to me, the elite prop firm that you might work at in Latest York.

I began reading these books after which you understand, my dad was still trading.

I form of began talking to him about trading after which I used to be talking to my buddy on a regular basis.

I mean, he knew his learning because he was his first 12 months trading and it’s almost like we were just absorbing tons of knowledge together.

I mean, I will need to have busted through this reading list of like 20 books and like, I do not know, one semester.

I used to be spending far more time reading about my trading books and stuff than I used to be in school by that time.

I checked out a few jobs.

I got a job offer to sell insurance and a few stuff like that.

I like good corporations.

My mom was blissful about that.

She wanted me to do this and that’s what ended up happening there are, to me, pretty, pretty scammy prop firms within the US where you go put up like five grand they usually inform you that you’ll trade their money or whatever.

But in point of fact, you place up 5K and that is your risk capital, right?

When you burn your 5K, you are out.

They do not take any risk on you after which additionally they collect commissions on the shares you trade.

And it’s what… So I ended up doing that and it’s what they taught us to do was to read the extent two screen.

We just checked out the extent two screen they usually taught us to look for large bids and massive offers on level two.

For example Visa had a $300,000 or 300,000 share bid at like 75 bucks.

Because the stock got here into 75, we might buy like a thousand shares, and like 75, 15, you’d buy a thousand shares, $150 risk.

At 75.10, you’d buy like a thousand more.

We were traded even smaller than that starting.

I feel we had like a $200 limit down there or something like that.

So possibly I’d be buying 100 shares or 200.

I am unable to even remember at this point and 75.05, buy much more.

So next thing you understand, you may have…

Let’s just say we’re buying like 200, 200, 200 or something.

So that you’d have like 600 shares and in theory, you’d have like $50 risk or something.

Sometimes you probably did.

Because sometimes you’d get out when the 300K printed or loads of the time you probably did actually.

Sometimes that 300K would print quickly because like everybody within the room could be in it and there was one other prop for the door over that had the identical strategy.

So everybody could be in the identical and when that thing would print, you understand, it’d go like 75 bucks to love, you understand, 74, and you understand, you would be down like five, $600, which while you’re 23, not less than for me, because I did not have any money.

Like all my money was in that account and I used to be sleeping on my buddy’s couch who was the prop trader.

I feel I used to be paying him 400 bucks a month.

I used to be bringing in food from Costco after I got here down on the train.

“Oh, man, it was, it was, it was so, uh, it was so rugged”

If I feel I, I hung one for possibly like three to 6 months.

Um, certainly one of my issues was, and I feel it was for loads of us is that, we could be so blissful to love have days where we might generate profits, you understand, that the times we might be at like $300-400 or something like that.

You understand, even in the event you like, cause sometimes the approach to get put in on these big bids, and in the event you understood charts and things that I didn’t understand on the time, you’d realize like…

“Oh man, I’m long this from the lower of the day and I got like 4 or 500 shares and the thing could move 4 bucks, which would not be that ridiculous”

You understand, it would be like a two or 3% move or something and you might make two grand.

But loads of the times we were taking our 50, 60 cent profit, if that if that.

I’m sure we were selling some at like 20, 30 cents and that is really form of what we were taught to do anyway.

We’re taught to scalp on level two.

But the nice guys within the room, they might scalp they usually’d hit that 300k beard like three or 4 times, but they’d hold a runner.

They were good too.

They have been trading longer than us they usually built a much bigger bankroll and they’d, possibly they’d have 5,000 shares or a few of them like 25,000 shares where I had like 500.

But on the run, they might hit it within the bank a few times because that is the thing you’d sell for 20 cents and cargo back up until that big bidder off for print.

But they may need a few thousand shares left for the three or four-point move.

That is really where I feel they might make, you understand, 80% of their money then they might form of make solid money on their scalps after which pay for loads of their losses with the scalps.

Um, but I feel the younger guys are guys like me.

We never really, made that cash that form of got us excessive.

We were form of similar to form of not losing loads of money, but not making loads of money.

I feel I lost $2,500 after like, I actually cannot remember what number of months I used to be there.

It was so way back, but 4 to 6 months, for instance…and in hindsight, I feel that was pretty good with how we were trading.

But the quantity of shares we will need to have traded was so much.

So the individuals who owned the room were making a penny a share on us.

You understand, they were, they usually had a room of 40-50 guys and I’d say within the 4 to 6 months I used to be there, I watched 50% of the room turn over two or thrice, and I watched like 78% of the room turn over not less than once.

They were possibly, they were about three or 4 really good guys, after which certainly one of the blokes that owned the room, he owned over the partner, he was, really, really good.

The opposite guy was definitely, I do not even think he traded. I mean, he was…

He was a sketch ball.

I do not know this, but I do think that Friar, so this was around 2010.

I need to say possibly within the early 2000s, that is how loads of these guys traded.

I feel it did work pretty much.

But now I feel in the event you tried that, I feel there’s a lot fake.

Order flow on the extent two.

I mean, I do not take a look at level two in any respect anymore.

But I feel there’s a lot fake order flow that it’s tough to inform what’s real and what’s not and we learned other stuff too, like refreshing buyers and sellers.

Like how do you understand if you may have something that may move, has an actual buyer, and stuff like that I feel attempting to do stuff like that now could be very difficult.

But it surely’s not a part of what I do.

But I’d have an interest to know if anyone still tries to trade like that or not.

I’d think no, but you understand there’s probably someone on the market that does.

Rayner (28:38)

Yeah, this type of jogs my memory of back then after I was a prop trader trading the Japanese futures market.

Yeah, lots of the traders were just scalping off the extent two as well.

They do not take a look at charts after which back then, probably around 2006-2007, right, for the Japanese futures market, the decay 2-5.

The market is not as sophisticated because it is today.

So principally loads of the order flow is kind of legit, right?

It is not like, you understand, a hard and fast, fake order.

So loads of them made loads of money during that period.

But when the algorithm got here in, like possibly after the 08, and 09 financial crisis, loads of them just couldn’t adapt to the brand new change in market structure.

Most of them, from what I do know, stopped trading altogether because their age isn’t any longer there.

Oliver (29:23)

Yeah. It’s amazing while you think, you understand, we talked to my dad’s open outcry, right?

Different from, I mean, that is non-existent today.

Then I suppose what I started off doing was something that probably worked a few years before I began doing it.

People were doing it after I was doing it who were getting cash obviously.

But I could be surprised if that works in any respect now.

Perhaps, but I could be very

But I do think that many things have stood the test of time, like charts and things like that.

I feel the best way Livermore might be the fundamental guy that I like and I feel in the event you gave him some charts and things today, I feel he could generate profits.

But yeah, it’s just amazing to take into consideration how the markets have modified and the way they are going to change going forward.

You understand, and I do not know if it’ll affect like how we use charts and stuff, who knows.

But it surely’ll be interesting.

They may change in some capability.

I don’t doubt that.

Rayner (30:43)

Yep.

Perhaps let’s just form of like take a step back. I’m still, you understand, interested to listen to possibly about your growing up years, right?

From what I’m hearing, you are form of like a competitive person.

So just need to know, right? Know what?

What triggered that competitiveness in you?

Did something occur or were you only naturally born with this trait of yours?

Oliver (31:03)

Well, so we were just good athletes.

I mean, even once we were little kids, we were all the time really good athletes and my older brother is a 12 months older than me.

My older brother was, I mean, he still is to this present day.

I mean, he’s probably probably the greatest basketball players I’ve ever seen.

I mean, he’s unbelievable and so we were probably, I’d say, a basketball family, not less than at that stage.

You understand, in all places I went, you understand, my brother was unbelievable.

I used to be a extremely good player for my grade.

I used to be all the time probably the greatest players.

But I mean, my brother was to date and away higher than everybody else.

He would all the time be playing up, you understand, like in like fifth grade, you understand, like if the eighth grade needed a man or whatever, like my brother plays and like he’d be probably the greatest players.

Like he was unbelievable and so I suppose that probably created, you understand, a few of my competitiveness and that, you understand, I used to be form of all the time second best definitely, you understand, never even remotely near first.

It’s rightfully so. I mean, I used to be nowhere near pretty much as good.

Um, but I feel probably what triggered it’s, you understand when my parents split.

We moved to a, you understand, we moved to love a pleasant town, but we were, you understand, we were, you understand, a few of the least well-off people there.

Um, and I feel, uh, you understand, and it was like, uh, I don’t desire to say like stereotypical, but you understand, my mom was like a single mom in like a Massachusetts town, you understand, people weren’t exactly, I shouldn’t say that.

Not everybody was essentially the most welcoming of her or whatever.

My mom was working, you understand, multiple jobs, you understand, to form of provide for like five kids and, you understand, form of the best way that we were, you understand accepted was principally through sports because we were good at sports.

So, subsequently, I feel that is form of where we needed to go make it occur and earn it and form of prove ourselves.

I feel that was real obviously and we did.

I mean, we did. But so I feel that was probably…

Then I also think similar to over time, like multiple examples where, you understand, possibly it was just in my head, but I created this thing in my head where I felt slighted, you understand, like things modified so much, moved to Massachusetts, things are different.

Where I don’t desire to say like outcasts, because like I had it, I even have great friends from highschool who’re my best friends still, but we were probably somewhat different.

But at the identical time, like I had come from seeing like, you understand, pretty significant wealth.

So we did not have so much, but I, you understand, I knew what you might do, whereas I feel loads of people…

Like principally, I form of lived the richest of rags story somewhat, but I knew what you might have on the earth.

You understand what I mean?

Like I wanted that back, like bad after which out of faculty, literally applying to all of those jobs and similar to getting rejected by literally everybody, not less than for the roles that I wanted.

I used to be already competitive as an athlete.

But at the top of the day, you understand, I wasn’t going to play pro sports.

So, you understand, I needed to form of face the facts that, you understand…

Hey, we’re entering the following phase and like, you are not ok, you understand, or just like the least, that is what they’re telling you.

I never was going to have, I used to be never going to just accept that, definitely not.

So I just form of needed to figure it out and that made me competitive, you understand, hey, this guy’s getting this job and I’m not, you understand, I just think that is like some little wealthy kid who’s like connected.

That was form of my mentality.

And like, I feel that is, I feel that is BS. Like, you understand, like, like how can I, how can I make it occur?

And, uh, and so like, I feel all this stuff, you understand, one after the opposite is what, is what made me extremely competitive.

Then, you understand, as I got further in my profession, it’s like just so many failures and having to work out easy methods to form of get back up again.

I feel it just form of builds resolve and resilience.

It’s similar to you I’m sure every one who trades has similar failures.

Which we will get more into as we go.

But I feel that is form of how I built an enormous chip on my shoulder that I feel was built up over time, ranging from after I was somewhat kid.

But just amplified dramatically, just from that major, major life change that occurred once we moved from the West Coast to the East Coast and just how every thing modified, like every thing modified.

Then I just form of felt like I all the time needed to form of prove myself, I feel, from that time on.

Rayner (37:05)

Yeah, so that you mentioned about getting back in your feet right after failure after failure.

So I’m curious to listen to, you understand, what goes through your mind right, you understand, possibly after failure, you understand, what’s form of the pep talk you may have in your head, the voices in your head, what’s it saying to you after failure after failure?

Oliver (37:22)

Well, I mean, that is a great query.

I feel that it modified those voices in your head and all that stuff there then with each time you may have a setback.

But I also think that it changes like, you understand, while you’re 22 years old, you understand, it’s like the top of the world for you.

Because like, you are so naive as to how young you might be that it’s like, all right, like, like, looking back now, it’s like, all right, like,

You never had any, you understand, you lost 2,500 bucks, and such as you moved from the mom’s house for like six months or three months or whatever.

Like not that big a deal. But on the time, you understand, it was like the most important catastrophe within the history of mankind.

Like how is that going to go on?

You understand?

But at the identical time, you are also like, all right, just like the strategy I used to be doing didn’t work.

Like I never really viewed it as a failure.

I used to be like, all right, this didn’t work.

Like I even have to figure something else out though.

That is gonna work.

So principally, what I did is I went back to my mom’s house and like, man, I didn’t even know who I used to be following.

Like I do not think there was any Twitter or anything on the time, not less than I wasn’t on it.

Or possibly like a 12 months later, I used to be on it.

But I discovered some guy in some room who was running a prop firm in Latest York that in hindsight, was probably his model was somewhat much like the people I used to be at.

But I do think this guy was genuinely attempting to teach people.

I feel because he was somewhat more, I feel because he, how should I put this?

I feel because he had a heart, he actually wanted people to do well might be why his prop room didn’t work.

Because he wasn’t willing to only sell.

Anything like he wanted people to learn easy methods to trade accurately and stuff.

So I began learning from this guy.

He had this virtual room or something.

I feel I used to be trading the E-minis.

I had a few grand and I am unable to even remember.

Perhaps I could trade one contractor or something.

I used to be doing that from literally my bedroom from a laptop or something.

I feel my mom and my sister, they thought I used to be like…like crazy.

They didn’t know what I used to be doing up there all day, but I used to be studying on daily basis.

That is what I used to be doing and I’m sure loads of the times I wasn’t even trading in any respect because I used to be also working on the moving company, but I wasn’t full-time.

They didn’t all the time have hours for me although I’d worked there for a very long time after which I used to be fortunate in that a man that I played football with, his dad, was a football knew a man who ran a firm in Stanford.

It was these guys that split off from that legit prop firm that my buddy worked at.

I suppose technically they were like a hedge fund, but in point of fact, it was like 5 or 6 guys that split off they usually just desired to form of prop trade but in a smaller group.

I feel loads of them were from Stamford, White Plains, Latest York area.

So it form of allowed them to live closer to home or whatever and so I used to be very fortunate in that I used to be in a position to form of get in there as an assistant.

These guys did international arbitrage, which was much different than anything.

I didn’t even know this existed.

Like I had no concept that any of this existed in any respect.

So I assisted these two guys and certainly one of them was a really aggressive trader, like really, really swung for the fences, not less than on the time.

I’m still friends with him now and I feel he’s far more, he’s less aggressive now.

Then the opposite was so conservative, so conservative that like if he lost money,

It was just like the sky was falling and really, I do not know this, but I do not think he lost money that much.

But I also don’t think he ever really, really killed it.

But I feel emotionally, similar to the uncertainty of like money making, via trading, wore on him and he got out of the business somewhat bit after we…broke up as a bunch.

But it surely’s form of funny because I’d say he probably made money, not less than that is my impression most days relative to another, most people who trade.

But I just think that the entire concept that there was a likelihood that he won’t have made money, really scared him.

Now actually, he met his wife through me.

He’s got three kids now and he’s super blissful.

So all of it worked out amazingly for him.

But it surely was just interesting that I used to be form of, and also you guys were great friends too.

I’m sure they’re still great friends today if I needed to guess.

But I used to be assisting these two polar opposite, trading personalities, and trust me after I say I got to witness the extremes of every.

But principally from a method perspective what we did is we traded a few stocks.

So we traded Newscore.

So this conservative guy, I need to say that he traded Newscore 100% of the time and so Newscore traded between the US and Australia.

There have been so even international arbitrage, the best way that the primary…

Strategy I did I feel worked a few years before I did it.

I feel international arbitrage a few years before I got there There have been a gym easy arms that were I don’t desire to say free money because nothing’s ever free.

But pretty consistent free money where news cores the US could be like a Percent a half higher than Australia you’d start the US clothes.

You understand do half your Aussie dollars after which buy it back in Australia do the remainder of your Aussie dollars and make a percentage.

I feel that guys did that pretty consistently before after I got into it.

Then I take into consideration after I got into it, and again, I didn’t realize this on the time because I just didn’t even know enough to appreciate it.

But you take a look at a charting news rating now, NWSA, it breaks out and it goes up within the US, after which for instance — it was trading at a premium to Australia, guess what it was going to do?

It was going to even go up higher in Australia since it’s like a clean breakout.

So although it looked like there could be an ARB there, there wasn’t.

It was similar to there was momentum and I feel if I had realized that on the time, I’d have done higher doing the international ARB stuff.

But then other trades were…

We traded BHP and Rio between Australia and the US.

Then a really interesting trade that I am unable to say I did because I feel it was more of a complicated trade that they only told me to not do was Rio Tinto.

It’s a giant mining company in Australia.

Rio trades within the US, Australia, and London.

But it surely’s non-fungible, meaning you could not convert, I feel it was London shares to the US market.

So London traded with Australia and the US traded with Australia, but London didn’t trade with the US.

So like you could not convert it and so there was a man on our desk who was an actual player and like loads of money and who I’m sure remains to be trading loads of money now, but he was a diffusion trader.

There have been brokers that may make a market on the fungibility of Rio.

London to the US and this guy, and that is my understanding, again, this was so way back, but he would trade the broker spread.

So the broker spread would go up and down based on where he was willing to make a market on London versus Australia.

He would delay and down and let the, you understand when the broker spread was way out, he would start constructing his position.

You understand, this guy would use, he was very smart and, you understand, I’m sure he had excellent money management skills and, you understand, he would play that spread.

There have been loads of guys that may play that spread, but, you understand, they’d play that spread with like a one or two-day approach.

Whereas this other guy was like a much bigger picture, like, because when that spread paid, I feel so the firm ended up blowing up in 2011.

The market sold off, particularly Australia mining stock stuff, and I need to say that guy in the long run ended up making loads of money on that, although he was down good when it blew out.

But he was down and he hadn’t even really put his position on yet.

You understand what I mean?

He was in his position, but he hadn’t put it on yet and I need to say when that collapsed, he ended up making loads of money.

In order that was a trillion after which somewhat less so, but we’d trade like Toyota, Sony, between Japan and the US.

Then probably certainly one of the craziest days, and I used to be too scared to trade, I can fully admit it, but when the tsunami happened in Japan, man, I’ll always remember.

There was this other crazy kid on the desk who was, he was my age, but he was a freaking wild man.

I mean, he made loads of money when, on the time, for like a 23-year-old.

I didn’t know the way much but like well under the six figures, I like, you understand, high, possibly high, I do not know.

But he needed his load of that toy out and right on the open of the tsunami and it ripped and I feel he cashed out like quarter-hour later.

But you understand, once we ended up blowing up, you understand, he got destroyed.

I suppose, you understand, I got to witness so much there, but in the long run, I didn’t make any money doing any of the international arbitrage stuff.

I had followed certainly one of my mentors into some stuff, you understand, not the conservative one, the opposite one, you understand, after I first began to form of attempt to learn.

The thing is, like, these guys were trading such larger sizes that for me, like, what was the small size for them?

You understand, I feel I used to be down like 60 grand in the primary month.

It was like no big deal. But for me, it was an enormous deal because like I had come from losing 2,500 bucks in like 4 or six months to now down 60 grand and it’s like no big deal.

I used to be never paying a draw.

Like this was an actual firm.

They were taking some risk on me.

After they interviewed me, they thought that I had, you understand, they may tell that I had studied, I’d worked hard and stuff.

You understand, they wanted to take a position in me.

But I could not handle it.

I didn’t understand the trades I used to be putting on either.

I used to be just literally following people blindly, which like that is what they form of wanted me to do.

I understand why.

But I ended up finding this guy on Twitter.

Then I got on Twitter and I discovered this guy by the name of Trader Florida, who still exists, but not in the best way that he did on the time.

This guy I still think has got to be certainly one of the best traders ever.

He would go on to Twitter every night and just teach short videos.

He introduced me to William O’Neill and the funny thing is my mother had bought me Make Money in Stocks like a 12 months earlier and had told me like…

“Hey, in the event you’re going to do that, you must read this book”

I feel like I…It has 1999 on the front.

The one she gave me was a skinny blue-covered book and I wish I still had it, but I do not know where it went.

But I even have my copy right here.

But she gave it to me.

I never really read it since it had the 1999 on the front.

You open it up, it’s got like 99 SMR rating, 90 R, and you are like, what’s these items?

Like they were just attempting to sell us all these items.

Like, you understand, I’m reading about MACD and RSI.

You understand, I’m reading in regards to the real stuff that is gonna assist you to generate profits trading.

I never read it.

Then I run into this guy, Trader Florida, you understand, probably a 12 months later, and he’s saying…

“You understand, you gotta get this book, 25% minimum earnings, and sales”

Stocks making recent highs, charts, you understand, cup and handle, you understand, this guy would say…

“You know, charts are every thing to me, and volume”

This guy, now that I have been doing this some time, is what he, really, really taught me about volume.

Volume is every thing.

Like I do not know the way anybody can trade the market without volume.

Volume is like the important thing for me to every thing and a man who’s change into a mentor to me, certainly one of the ways he scans the market is he covers up the charts.

He just looks at the quantity patterns and he’s in a position to inform you where stocks are going to go based on the quantity.

It’s true while you learn to read volume just like the gates open up.

But anyway, I began following this guy on Twitter and I mean, I used to be going through his videos every night.

I lived in a, I had a room and house with like five roommates.

hey were throughout than me and I, you understand, somewhere at like 8 pm is when like Japan and London opened and even, even when I finished form of following these guys on ARB and I used to be more US swing trading, I used to be still an assistant.

I had to observe the London open at, or sorry, Japan, which opens at eight with Australia, and I’d bring back an hour.

Between the 2 depending on the time of 12 months.

Then because I had to take a seat there, I used to be studying charts.

I built up my repertoire of trading books.

I used to be reading my books.

I used to be studying the Trader Florida videos each night for hours.

I feel the people I lived with thought I used to be completely insane.

They never saw me after which I’d sleep for a few hours.

I’d must rise up for just like the…

I suppose, wouldn’t it have been the Japan open at 1 a.m.?

I am unable to even remember after which I’d must rise up for the London Open at 3 a.m.

I’d must rise up for ARCO open at 4 a.m. when the U.S. likes pre-market traded because sometimes these guys would want their ARBs taken off at like 4 a.m.

That is where there have been huge outlier discrepancies because loads of these guys, that is what they were doing more trading-like spread-type stuff.

The times when no person else is watching is when there are inefficiencies, you understand?

But because principally from Sunday at eight until Friday at 4, I used to be just about watching the market.

I used to be just stoking every thing this guy needed to say…

“You understand, I’d be watching just like the London Open here and I’d be like trading the ground right up here”

 I mean, I used to be watching the sky for 16 hours a day and I began to make some money.

You understand, not huge because certainly one of my issues was I used to be so scared to lose money.

That is how I all the time was starting I never really made that much money either for 2 reasons.

One, after I was right my position size could be too small, or two.

I’d form of just be too bored with a stop.

I’d get shaken out after which, after which, after which things would move without me.

But then I began making some good trades.

I began making some progress and I began, although I used to be getting a draw, I needed to make back what I lost before I used to be going to make any money.

Then I’d also must make what they paid out on my draw before I began getting an excess of that.

I used to be getting there. I am unable to remember exactly.

It was going well.

A number of the stocks I used to be trading were names that I’d have never traded before meeting Trader Florida because I’d have thought they were too expensive.

Like CMG on the time, I need to say, was like a $300 to $500 stock.

I’d have all the time thought that is too high a price.

I am unable to trade that.

But Trader Florida made me realize that those are precisely the names that you simply do need to trade.

Because those are the names, you understand, the institutions are buying because our little Joe Schmo retail trader who thinks you do not need to trade that will not trade it.

So, subsequently, all the quantity that is in that name is real, prefer it’s real buyers and sellers.

Subsequently, it’s easier to read a stock like that, which is how I trade today.

The fundamental name I have been trading for the previous few years is Nvidia.

It’s like a $700 stock and the quantity of volume that pours out and in of it’s just unbelievable, which for me, the best way I trade makes it easier to form of read.

But I learned that from Trader Florida.

To make a protracted story short, in 2011, I am unable to remember exactly what the catalyst was, if it was rates or what it was.

However the markets, we were in a choppy range-bound market anyway.

But we had like a flush out where commodity stocks, particularly, got hit, things like Rio and BHP, and our firm got run over.

I feel a few of them even just, the best way I used to be taught after I was doing ARBs was like, in the event you’re going to place an ARB on, you usually must hedge your edgy Aussie dollars.

Simply because while you open a position in a single country and shut it in one other, you create a currency position after which you may have to collapse that while you close the position.

I wanna say that quite than close their Aussies, they doubled down.

In order that they were long Aussies after which quite than sell Aussies to get down, they only said…

“Oh, that is overdone they usually then bought Aussie dollars”

So I feel in the long run, I do not know exactly what happened, but we got hit within the mining stocks.

We got hit within the Aussie dollar.

I feel those guys have done well. I say those guys because let’s be honest, I used to be the smallest guy.

Whatever I used to be doing didn’t affect the underside line of anything and the day we went under, I’ll always remember, I used to be short the OAH, the Oil Services ETF, which on the time was far more tradable, I feel like, than it’s today.

I used to be feeling really good.

I wanna say I am unable to even remember.

I feel I used to be gonna make like six grand in a day or something like that and I’d had a much bigger day than that, but it surely was like certainly one of my biggest days.

I used to be feeling really good.

Like I knew after I got here available in the market was breaking, like things were breaking wide open and I used to be feeling real, real good.

Then, you understand, possibly like 10 a.m. or 10 30 and, you understand, knowing me on the time, cause I had probably, it was probably gone more and I’d probably already covered loads of my position just cause, you understand, I did not have the holding power that I even have now.

You understand, that probably on this little conference room quick and simple because remember while you’re trading from like 8 p.m. on Friday to 4 p.m. or 8 p.m. on Sunday to 4 p.m. on Friday, you find yourself spending loads of time with these guys.

Like even while you’re not on the desk, you are at certainly one of the blokes’ houses trading and then you definitely prefer to do something or whatever.

Such as you’re form of trading the opens and closes and then you definitely’re form of like all the time together all week, not entirely, but Spent loads of time.

So just like the guy that you have been with all week brings you in and he’s like — Hey, you understand, we got drilled.

Go close all of your positions.

We’re shutting every thing down and you are like, whoa, what? Like what? Wait,

I’m like my downstairs or whatever and he’s like…

“Yeah, but your downstairs does not imply anything”

No, I’m similar to, what?

So in a while, that was form of for me, I suppose you might say the third time, you understand, with the thing that happened after I was a child.

Then my first product experience was form of just like the third time now where the market got me.

I used to be similar to…

 “God rattling, I felt like I used to be beginning to learn”

I used to be still very ripe. I need to emphasise that.

But I felt like I used to be beginning to make progress.

I form of had a way as to what I used to be doing for the primary time, possibly in that two to three-month period.

I felt like I used to be developing a method, you understand?

After which just, you understand, gone, job gone, like, you understand, found out.

I do not know what you are, whatever, what is the saying?

You understand, go somewhere, you possibly can’t stay here or something like that.

That is just about the way it was and, you understand, I feel all of us like went out that weekend after which that was form of like, that was it, you understand?

Now it’s back to mom’s house again.

Rayner (1:00:23)

Right, but before we proceed Oliver, do you ought to get some water first?

Oliver (1:00:30)

I had some water earlier.

Thanks.

Rayner (1:00:31)

Okay, unbelievable.

So yeah, you’ve got covered loads of ground, right?

Your personal life, your debt, and your different trading methodologies over time.

So now let’s speak about possibly today, right?

So what’s your trading approach today?

You mentioned somewhat bit from Trader Florida, I feel the canceling methodology, right?

So possibly you possibly can share somewhat bit more?

Oliver (1:00:47)

Yeah, so I…Where I have been I’ve used charts just about entirely and I utilize the ten and 20-period moving averages, and exponential moving averages.

Those are form of my goalposts that I trade around.

Then I exploit the 50 SMA as a tenet.

I do not trade off the 50 SMA though.

Every little thing I do is across the 10, 20 EMA, after which I form of measure whether a market’s prolonged to a level relative to the 50-day, possibly the 200-day.

Then I exploit price structure.

So I’m in search of stocks to form of break out of little mini consolidations which can be generally across the 10-20 period moving average.

I’m trying to ride the moving averages higher then I settle into what I call extensions, so form of little extensions away from the 10-period moving average.

Or if I do not get the extension right, I get stopped once we lose the moving averages.

Then I’m also just it, so I do that every one on the every day chart.

The every day chart is form of my trading timeframe and I’m the weekly to only form of see the larger picture, how big the bottom is, how far I feel this thing can move.

I’d say I managed the trade-in and off the every day, but I watched the 65-minute chart to evaluate the upper highs and better lows.

I’m definitely like a price structure trader, and I’d say a great approach to describe my strategy if I needed to say it in a single sentence could be that I’m a moving average crossover person, but I’m not actually.

But I’m trying to anticipate the changes in trend via the value structure.

It’s what I mean by that is that if I see a stock constructing form of like a base in the best way I differ from CanSlim, you understand, they speak about like 4 to eight-week bases, you understand, I’m talking about, you understand, 4 to 10 day little mini consolidations that may be inside a much bigger base.

But I’m trading it off than what I call the mini base and once we form of make that higher high or bust out of that, I prefer to get together with a stop below that.

Then so long as we’ve got higher highs and better lows on the 65-minute, I stay long.

Then I exploit the 1020 EMA as form of like a filter.

So for instance, you might think that a stock’s making a lower low, but when it’s above the 10-day, I form of say to myself, well, is it a lower low?

Or is that this stock just taking a healthy breath of fresh air, letting the 10-day catch-up, after which it reconfirms higher, meaning it makes the next high, after which I comprehend it has the next low, and that is the upper low?

I form of manage my position again, so then if it goes up and it does the identical thing again, and it reconfirms again, I’ll then move my stop up again, and I’m trying to ride the trend higher.

Then ideally sell into an extension.

Now you do not all the time get an obvious extension.

Sometimes you only form of have a really fizzling out in momentum.

So for instance, I caught this move within the video that began around like 495, 500, and I’m out most of my position here around, I probably got out of most of it around like 732 or so.

And certainly one of the explanations is it’s somewhat prolonged on the weekly.

I do not think it’s done anything fallacious in any respect.

I hope it pulls back so I can get, get back a giant position on it again, but it surely’s moved enough and I’ve, and I’ve made enough and it’s made higher highs and better lows this whole time.

Now we’ve got earnings next week and I do not like to take an infinite amount of risk on earnings.

I’ll hold in earnings, but I prefer to form of, you understand, I have been on this thing for six weeks.

We have made 40%, and 50% on our money.

Now I’ll hold somewhat bit in earnings, but probably about one-sixth or one-seventh of my position, simply because I need to form of put that cash within the bank.

It’s February without delay,  It’s early within the 12 months after which if it gaps up, it’s higher than where I sold it.

I’ll just let it arrange again after which I’ll get back on it when it sets up again and I feel like things have reset for me.

I do not necessarily care if I purchase it higher.

I just need to get my setup after which play the trade and compound my money.

So I’ve had a fairly good begin to the 12 months here and I do use margin.

So if I even have a great begin to the 12 months.

Then I can catch a second run.

You understand, I’m form of, I’m hopeful that we will get somewhat chop here after which I can catch a second run before the election.

I’ll have extra money to catch that second run after which hopefully catch a year-end run.

So I’m trying to utilize my strategy, but then could we just keep ripping higher here?

Absolutely. I feel the market looks like a extremely good, larger picture, but there was a likelihood we are available, I see some potential for that.

Once I say are available, it’d just chop around, you understand, not necessarily are available and I need to ensure that I form of bank my money so I even have the chance to compound it after I feel just like the market is freshly arrange again, if that makes any sense.

Like once we’re coming out of a fresh base, you understand, that is all the time where I will have my most size is coming out of a fresh, you understand, little mini base.

As we get increasingly prolonged and there is more potential to offer back, I need to have reduced out by risk and just form of wait for that prime probability play again.

I try to only try this over and another time.

Rayner (1:07:25)

Okay, so from what I’m hearing is that you simply prefer to discover stocks which can be coming out of a consolidation, a base.

What is the duration of the bottom that you simply said you were again?

Oliver (1:07:33)

So I mean, it’s form of at this point, it’s form of just like the well-trained, so this weekly chart in Nvidia had loads of things going for it.

Then it was like a, so I’m aware of just like the larger base.

So for instance, Nvidia had a six-month base, right?

So it was very nice.

But then the actual pattern that I ended up buying was really like a multi-day type pattern.

It was like, well, I suppose it was like a form of a two-week, what do they call it, double bottom base.

But then the best way it’s arrange, it’s form of built over like three to 4 days.

So it’s form of like a moon base within a much bigger base.

So like I’m combining timeframes after I speak about these bases, but so far as where I execute, it was only like a 3 to 4 day.

Sort of mini base.

Could you possibly share the date so people can discuss with it in the event that they want to?

So the best way that I take into consideration Nvidia is that this base began in about August of 23.

I had traded this stock through that rally after which it consolidated between August and January and I used to be taking some trades on this base some winners, some losers, but no trade that significantly moved my capital.

But so we had this big consolidation.

Then in the event you’re the weekly chart, you may notice that starting within the week of 12-18, we’re really within the week of 12-4.

We now have form of what I view as a weekly bull flag, and we form of push up out of it the week of 12-4.

12-11, and then you definitely resist at that 505 level, the week of 12-18. And 505 was vital because that is form of where we topped on 8-21.

Then the trade that I got on with pretty significant size was 12-18, 12-25, and 1-1.

In those three weeks, you possibly can see that the claims of 12.18 on the weekly was 4.88 and the close on 1.1 was 4.91.

So over three weeks, we traded in a 1% range.

So we had an enormous contraction in volatility than the best way that I saw that… Hold on.

The way in which that I saw that you understand …

They put me on the digital chart on 1229.

We pulled back to start out the 12 months when the market did.

One, two, we form of had a shakeout, after which on one, three, and I’m a giant relative strength guy.

So on one, three of this 12 months, the market was, where’s one, three?

The market was down, you understand,

I do not know. It was – my ticker isn’t working great here.
But we were doing pretty good after which we were right again on 1.4. And on 1.3, Nvidia closed higher than where it opened.

So it showed relative strength to the underlying market after which on 1.4, we were up and the market was down, and that to me right there, throughout the context of that larger weekly pattern.

It was like two days in a row where the market was going lower and the video was going higher after which the following day once we traded out through the high of 1.4, I began getting along this thing in just like the 4.85 area.

It went as much as like 4.95 and it pulled back and I actually, I am unable to even see this now because my arrow doesn’t return that far.

I’m just doing this by memory.

But on the 65-minute chart, the best way we traded out through $4.85, we had a pleasant little burst within the morning, after which we built like a bull flag on the 65-minute chart within the afternoon.

It looked really good after which the following morning, I loaded up because I already had a position from a solid price which allowed me to get aggressive on that next move the following morning.

I used to be really, I need to say I used to be buying $495, $497, $500 and I paid attention to the entire number obviously and so by the point we got to $500, you understand…

I had a fairly significant position after which I knew $505 was the all-time high and so I purchased somewhat more through $505 after which form of by like the top of the day — I used to be like, wow, this thing’s going to go because like big volume was pouring into it and I already had a giant position.

But until the close, you are like, ah, is that this thing gonna hold? But I felt good about it, but you only never really know.

Then into the close, I purchased somewhat bit more, and principally, I feel that’s what I did, is I brought my price as much as somewhat under 500, and that was gonna be about my stop.

In order that’s form of what I attempt to do, is I attempt to get a great size position on.

I’m not all the time buying without delay, but I’m pretty aggressive after I feel like I’ve got it.

This was an instance where I felt like I had this thing and it was just clear to me and for multiple reasons.

One, you may have a giant weekly base. So that you knew that if it worked, it was going to have the firepower to maneuver, you understand because you wish that big, big base.

But then the best way that it showed like two days of relative strength and it began to form of tighten up its base.

So it had been like, it had made a 20% down move from 500 to 400, after which it made a ten% down move from 500 to 450, after which it made possibly, what, like a 5% down move from 500 to 475.

So it had form of contracted its base and was showing that the sellers were rejecting it at 500 however the buyers were supporting it at 400, then 450, then 475, after which in that little index pull-in to start out the 12 months, there have been no sellers within the stock, you understand?

You possibly can just feel it on the brink of explode.

I mean, it gets me excited occupied with it.

It’s such a stupendous thing and I just felt good about it.

I went after it.

You understand, really this trade form of, I feel just like the trade has concluded for me now, although I still have somewhat bit.

But it surely’s an ideal example of what I attempt to do and it’s a great example too, because I still think this stock goes to go higher.

But it surely would not shock me if it had some consolidation first and whether that consolidation…

Retraders higher or if it pulls back somewhat then I purchase it somewhat bit lower is form of irrelevant to me.

It’s just I need to attend for that next consolidation after which take the following trade whether it’s higher or lower.

I’ve form of made my money here and I hope I get it again sooner or later this 12 months.

Rayner (1:15:35)

Okay, so I’ll just do a fast summary in case the audience desires to form of like encapsulate what I’ve just said.

What I’m hearing is that you understand, NVIDIA was a trade you took early this 12 months.

You talk in regards to the base quite a bit, right?

From August 2023 to January 2024. It’s form of like, an ascending triangle, right?

From the looks of the chart, you understand, classical chart patterns, you may call this a series of upper lows coming into resistance.

The way in which you bought excited, I suppose, was the consolidation got tighter and tighter, right?

Towards the tail end, I feel it’s like only a bounce between 500 and 475.

Then somewhere inside you notice that there’s relative strength on this stock as well.

If the indices were down, it may be a few days in a row, but this stock held up, closing higher for the day.

In order that shows you signs of strength and you most likely entered on the lower timeframe, just like the 65-minute timeframe to get an entry.

I heard you mentioned something like a flag pattern within the afternoon trading session.

That is where you bought your first entry and then you definitely progressively scale up as the value, you understand, showed you, you understand, it’s understanding in your favor.

Sort of like summed up form of like.

The setup that you simply would like to trade over and another time?

Oliver (1:16:43)

Yeah, I mean this, if I could just trade setups like this, and in addition in stocks like this, I like liquid stocks.

So like I do know other stocks can have a much bigger percentage move, but I’ll put loads of money in a stock like this, whereas like one other stock that perhaps can move more.

Is less like so like I caught the move at SMCI too but due to the best way SMCI trades I’m never going to have as big of a position even when it had a much bigger move.

Because like you understand it’ll move like 10% in a day and I like high beta but I do not like insane betas not less than from a sizing perspective so it is the setup after which it’s stock.

I feel the important thing thing, the 2 key things I’d say is one, just like the larger picture base, was sufficiently big in order that if it did trigger, it had the potential for a giant move.

Then the best way the volatility throughout the base contracted would form of be 0.2 after which loads of the times in nearly all of my big trades, you will see like two days of relative strength before they launch.

That’s form of the important thing, the important thing tells that you may have your hands on a big-time situation.

That is why I find it irresistible, I find it irresistible when the index goes down because I can sniff out what’s for real, you understand because loads of stocks go up when the market goes up.

A number of the stocks I’d never need to own go up essentially the most when the market goes up.

But additionally they get destroyed when the market goes down.

Whereas the true, I do not wanna say that…

Yeah, like screw it, the true stocks, those that I wanna own, they often have support under them when the market’s weak.

So certainly one of the things I learned from Trader Florida that he all the time emphasized is, you understand, corrections are great so long as you do not ride them down.

Like do not be afraid of a correction or pullback available in the market, it’s putting on a silver platter for you exactly what you ought to be focused on and what you ought to buy.

So I find it irresistible when the market goes down.

I find it irresistible.

Rayner (1:19:16)

Okay. And from what I’m guessing, right, you will not often get such setups like this since it needs time to accumulate and stuff like that.

So what do you do within the meantime if, for instance for a great period of the 12 months, there are not any such similar trading setups?

Oliver (1:19:32)

Yeah, so like I can inform you without delay.

So like my mentality, I suppose, going into this week is, I caught this SMCI move, it was like a month and a half long move.

I caught this Nvidia move, it was like a month and a half long move, and a few of the trades I made could be longer than that.

They may be like two and a half months, two months, or something.

But form of my mentality, even when we go somewhat bit higher here, I do not know is to only form of take things somewhat bit easier for the following, I do not know, two or three weeks or something and just form of see what happens here with this market and hope that I get a recent round of setups.

I’m considering at that time, we could have one other big move possibly from the center of March to June, July or so.

Then I even have one other, I have been in crowds since.

Once I bought it, I began getting in the gang at like 172.

So I have been in crowds since September.

So, you understand, NVIDIA, I still think goes higher, but as my current trade has, you understand, realistically NVIDIA could pull back a few percent and I’ll probably be back on it.

It’s, you understand, it’s just like the same trend, but it surely’s a unique trade for me.

Whereas other names that just move somewhat otherwise, like I have been on this crowd for now, form of unbelievably like 4 or five months.

So if I’m in other stuff too, it isn’t similar to I’m in a single stock.

So I even have other stuff occurring.

I even have other stocks coming up without delay which have earnings that can form of rely upon how I construct them.

I took a fairly large position in Coin every week ago or so and it’s moved pretty significantly.

And I’m form of like, so for instance, for that, like what am I doing within the interim?

I’m hoping that’ll rest for like two or three weeks and I should buy more because I feel there is a likelihood it goes higher.

I feel pretty good it’ll go higher but I just, it’s crazy stretched right here, you understand.

So, you understand, and I’m studying other things.

Other stocks have reported earnings recently which have ripped on earnings, which I do not generally chase that stuff.

But I’m focused on that stuff to form of chop down here and arrange for me, even when it’s similar to every week or two a chop.

So without delay I even have so many things, like so many things that I’m being attentive to.

That I’m not gonna chase right here, but when I can get somewhat little bit of consolidation, I will be throughout them.

You understand what, if they only keep ripping iron, then I’ll just kinda must wait.

So even after I do not have a giant trade on or something, I used to attempt to do stuff like trade the shorter timeframes and stuff.

I’m staying away from that one because I feel that I am unable to say I made massive progress doing that.

Perhaps I even have a great day here, a foul day there performing some day trading.

I make my money hitting my core trades once they’re arrange and putting loads of my account in those trades.

So I suppose my mentality is to remain focused on the large picture.

Understand we’re six weeks into the 12 months after which I feel like with the move we have had and the way I feel in regards to the market here with it being an election 12 months, and just form of how I’m seeing every thing arrange.

Like last 12 months, it was just the large caps.

Now I’m seeing so many other names, like having what I call a weekly change of character bars.

So I feel initially of each move in a stock, you may have a large week of volume.

Now, possibly that is an earnings report or another type of catalyst of some sort, but you may have an infinite weekly volume, what I call a weekly change of character bar.

Then to me, that sometimes signifies that that stock goes to be supported on dips and pullbacks.

Obviously not all the time and sometimes it’s supported, but it surely doesn’t speed up higher.

It just form of like doesn’t go lower.

So I need to hopefully attempt to position myself within the situations that get supported after which expand higher.

I see so many weekly changes of character bars without delay.

And I, and, you understand, I keep lists of them once they occur.

So I do not necessarily all the time buy them once they explode, but I’m focused on those names as they consolidate and arrange.

So really without delay, like literally going into next week or the week after.

No matter where the market goes, because I do not care.

I’m so bullish in the marketplace without delay.

But so far as how things are arrange for what I can aggressively go after and buy, just based on my strategy, I’m form of waiting for a few of this stuff to construct this type of two to three-week little mini-base of some sort.

If that happens, I feel I will have one other pretty good run here.

So I even have some positions on without delay obviously, but I even have many things that I’m watching and I even have the money without delay to place to work.

I’m just form of waiting for these opportunities to return to me where I can get them in a low-risk position.

That is a great time so that you can ask me that query because that is literally what I’m going through without delay, like heading into the week.

The names that I’m mentally zoned in on, are Nvidia obviously.

I got to get through this earnings report.

Then if it gaps up, in the event you take a look at January 23, I feel it’s arrange exactly prefer it is without delay.

It pulled back into the 20-day somewhat bit before earnings, gapped up on earnings, after which went sideways for 2 or three weeks.

I sold it last 12 months and I purchased it back possibly five points higher, but in a totally recent setup with like a three-week mini base.

I’d find it irresistible if we saw something like that occur within the video and if we did, I will be throughout it.

Then I feel this coin, I mean, coin just moved from like 120 to 190 in like eight days.

I mean, that’s in really, I believed the earnings were really good.

No less than the best way I used to be reading them.

A number of people thought that the ETFs were going to crush coins revenues and coins had an incredible revenue number they usually posted a surprise profit.

I take a look at this thing and I say, the 10-days at 150, so we’re about 20% above the 10-day.

If I purchase, the probabilities of me having the ability to hold that position are very low.

So I had a position from 130 and I sold somewhat bit on Friday.

I sold an honest amount.

But really, that is form of trade one for me and I form of took some profits on that.

Now I’m trying to reload a second position on a coin.

I’m very fascinated with coins.

I am unable to buy something 20% above the 10-day movement average.

It’s just not going to occur after which crowd, which is one other stock I’m in.

It has earnings, I think I’m three five, and PinW, Palo Alto Networks is one other cyber stock that reports this week, after which Zscaler reports next week.

I’m form of just trying to form of get through that on that position because I even have it from a lot lower, and I feel it’s going higher that I’m willing to form of sit through some consolidation on that kind of stuff.

But really, I would really like to get one other position of that going.

Mentally for me, it’s a totally separate trade, but I feel it’s probably the greatest stocks available in the market.

Somewhat than diversify down into one other name that I do not think is as quality of a reputation, it doesn’t have liquidity, it doesn’t have the earnings and sales, it doesn’t have the sector theme.

So form of the themes for me this 12 months are like AI, Cyber, crypto, and then you definitely’re all the time going to have form of these one-off names that perhaps are their theme.

But so those are form of the areas of the market that I’m focused on.

A number of individuals are talking about oil stocks turning without delay.

Like I’m not trying to form of chase that sector rotation.

I’m just saying, okay, possibly a few of my stuff’s somewhat ahead of itself. I just need to be patient and let it arrange again.

I need to remain focused on my stuff.

I don’t desire to miss the 2 days of relative strength before it goes, because I’m screwing around with some financial stock or something that is going to rally like 10% in like three months.

You understand what I mean?

I need to remain dialed in on my core names.

That is what I’m considering.

Rayner (1:29:24)

Yeah. So, yeah, you mentioned relative strength, right, for 2 days before the move, right?

So how vital is in search of that relative strength before the breakout?

Should you do not have that, do you continue to take the trick?

Oliver (1:29:37)

So like, yeah, I am unable to say that I’ve run, I mean, if the pattern’s there, I’ll.

But it surely’s almost such as you get this conviction while you see that, that does not exist while you don’t see it and conviction equals a much bigger position.

A part of the explanation they’re ready is because while you’re putting the position on, oftentimes the feedback you are getting is that…

“Hey, this thing’s for real”

Just the market’s telling you that.

But then I’m a giant believer that in your subconscious, your subconscious senses that too, just from watching it trade for those two or three days where possibly you were not even doing anything, but you were getting this feedback.

When the trade triggers and the quantity comes into it, that subconscious says — Hey, now’s the time. Now’s the time to go.

Like this thing is, it tell us the last couple of days that it was perking up, and today it’s telling us that we’re able to go.

So, there’s like a pair, here’s an example of a reputation.

Right away, that had a giant earnings report and I feel it had a giant move.

But without delay it’s, it gave the impression of it may need desired to proceed last week, but it surely form of thrilled Friday.

Should you ask me, Palantir is a fairly popular name.

It had what I consider to be a weekly change of character bar, I suppose the week before last and without delay if we were to form of and that sooner or later have those like two days of relative strength, like if it continued to construct out this pattern like I’m projecting myself on the longer term without delay.

This isn’t something I do, but I’m just saying that if that scenario played out, I feel it could form of have the pattern to act on something like that.

So it’s just like the relative strength throughout the context of the general larger picture.

Some random piece of relative strength in the midst of nowhere.

It has to do with the theme of the stock, and the general larger picture. All of it form of comes together.

I do not know easy methods to describe it 100%.

But seeing that relative strength, I find is commonly very present before a stock really form of moves.

You wish that consolidation too.

If a stock stretched from the 10-bay or something and it’s stronger than the market, that is much different since it’s like…

How do I manage my risk there?

Whereas I’m talking that subtle little bit of relative strength inside a base, which I do not even think Palantir is kind of there yet where you might, if it channeled down somewhat for a few days, arrange somewhat more.

Then that were to occur, it could be very meaningful to me since you form of have like a giant week up, every week last week that was tighter, after which in the event you got like two tight weeks.

Now you bought three weeks of mini bass and then you definitely begin to see that signal, then you definitely can listen since you got the weekly change of character, you bought the remainder and then you definitely’re form of getting that signal, that strength signal.

Ready where the stock’s not prolonged, whereas if it actually, stock will be really strong and look good, but when it’s prolonged, it’d form of move for someday after which form of act somewhat sluggish.

So it’s got to be at the correct time.

Rayner (1:33:37)

All right, so I hear you mentioned this thing called the weekly change within the corrector bar.

So possibly could you expand on it?

Not quite aware of it.

Oliver (1:33:43)

Well, it’s just, it’s similar to big volume.

So I call it a change of character.

I’m just a giant believer that in the event you go studying loads of, you understand, I hate to make use of the word like leader or whatever, but loads of names that move, they’ve significant moves.

You understand, often in the event you go study specifically the weekly chart, in the event you go study their weekly bases, you may notice that there is an infinite amount of volume.

Before that name took off.

So here’s a reputation that we will take a look at that I’m watching without delay that was probably by last week, but in the event you were to go take a look at this stock, NPP and I’ll indicate a few things to you on this weekly and this thing is brief term prolonged without delay for the best way I trade.

It would not shock me if it just kept moving higher once every week at 2.6, there’s loads of volume and it’s still in a weekly downtrend.

So it’s form of like — I’m not going to purchase that.

But when where we at the moment are, I’m like…

“Oh, possibly that is where they began buying this thing”

Then it goes through a few months of tight trade after which on 5-8, you see big volume again.

Then 5-15 weeks, you see a giant volume again.

In point of fact, that was form of just like the change of character, but just form of with how the weekly is so beaten up, that isn’t something that I will buy.

But then notice the week of 8-7, I mean, it does loads of volume, loads of volume.

Then it goes into this multi-month consolidation, similar to that Naviglia pattern.

This thing began to construct the space the week of 9-4.

So it has been a couple of five-month base and even inside that base, take a look at the week of 11-6, massive volume.

That is a giant up bar.

Then the quantity form of tapers off.

Then very recently we saw more subtle increases in volume, the week of 122 or 129.

Then this week we exploded.

Let’s examine…36 million.

I’m stuck in the very best volume week ever, but only about 400,000 shares off the very best volume week ever within the history of this stock.

Really, like loads of people will buy this gap up.

I’m buying that gap up in a more liquid stock in a reputation like Latest Vittaloo.

But this stock will be very volatile.

I’m just if I had bought this gun right by going right into a small position, I’d not have bought a giant position because I’d have been scared that this thing’s gonna flash down. In any case, it isn’t liquid and I’m gonna get smoked, you understand?

But now that it’s supported itself, even when this goes higher here, which like, you understand, it probably will, sooner or later in time, sooner or later in time, whether it’s, you understand, next week or a month from now or whatever

This might be going to have a multi-week consolidation and it’s gonna let the 20-day catch-up, hopefully, it’ll even consolidate to the purpose where it lets the 50-day get somewhat closer.

I will likely be on the stock when that happens.

I do not know, again, I do not know if it starts to occur now or if it happens a month from now, but due to these volume signatures which can be, you understand, have been occurring on the weekly and specifically this past week where it just did enormous volume.

I began to think that what I’d consider to be the change of character was the week of eight, and 7. You understand, to me, I comprehend it did more volume before then, but it surely did about 36 million shares that week.

It also had form of established more of an uptrend.

Whereas, you understand, the quantity on the lows might have been shorts covering, who just absolutely crushed it.

But now that we had rallied from, let’s just say — $10 as much as $30, the guy doing that volume might be an actual buyer, not a shortcut, but he’s probably a fresh buyer within the name.

You then begin to see, take into consideration that week of 8-7, the claims that week was $38.89.

Now think in regards to the week of 11-6 where we did that big volume.

The opening that week was $39.36.

Right in regards to the close of that other big volume.

I am unable to even bet you it’s the identical buyer, form of supporting his price.

So we didn’t get into this, but after I did the thing on the firm, I went and have become an institutional, like principally a sales trader, but I used to be what’s called an outsource trader.

I traded for like a fund that did not need to hire a trader, they hired us they usually primed broker with us and we knew their portfolio and we knew the positions they wanted.

Those situations, you understand, one very high-profile growth stock that loads of people would know, I purchased thousands and thousands of shares of this thing over, you understand, over a 12 months.

I purchased lots of of 1000’s of shares of this thing a day and I got to grasp, you understand, how.

So this will likely be one volume.

I used to be saying it’s a couple of just due to amount of volume it’s doing.

But there’s definitely, definitely with how I see the week of eight, seven, within the week of 11, six, there’s any individual, the identical guy, I’d bet money on it, who’s constructing a giant position on this thing.

They reported earnings this past week, that is why it gaps up.

That earnings day was confirmed for him.

Well, he knew or didn’t know they never know.

But eventually, a couple of bunch of this thing on the open on earnings, and he was going to proceed to purchase this for months. And, you understand, look, do I do know that for a fact?

Absolutely not.

But I feel like.

That is with my experience in constructing positions for some big funds that once they got on a growth stock early, form of how they built their position.

A number of these guys, give it some thought, it is a, what is the market cap on this thing?

I do not know. It’s probably under 20 billion or something.

They probably think this thing’s going to be like 100 billion, even in the event that they think it may be like 80.

They do not think like us, like…Hey, I will use a ten% stop.

They’re considering I run, and you understand, I’m not even talking to mutual funds.

I’m talking like a good-sized hedge fund.

I run 3 billion for this position to matter to my portfolio.

I even have to purchase $300 million value of this stock.

You understand what I mean?

Subsequently, at 60 bucks a share or whatever, I’ve gotta buy like 500 million shares, which anybody who’s traded this stock, even in the event that they did 36 million on this present day, you are not similar to moving into and buying five million shares of this stock.

You are just not.

There’s just not enough liquidity.

In order that they’re probably gonna be buying three or 500,000 shares and really, they’re probably buying you understand, so much greater than that.

They are not the just one, you understand, in the event that they’re on it, there’s another person on it.

So, you understand, it takes them weeks to purchase it.

I need to allow them to get a bunch of it, after which what are they gonna do?

In some unspecified time in the future, they’re gonna say — Okay, we have been buying this thing for like three weeks.

Let’s take the week off, you understand.

Mike or automotive portfolio manager, his daughter’s getting married, you understand, let’s similar to stop buying it this week.

I’m not saying that is what happens, but you understand, something like that.

But then it’d are available somewhat they usually’re their average price obviously.

They need to, I do not know in the event that they’re even like they need to defend their price, but they’re just like the last price they bought it at.

They, and I feel they form of view it like…

“Oh, you understand, we bought some at like 56, you understand, it went as much as 65, now it’s back at 56”

Like, this implies a fairly good area to start out picking away again.

Let’s gu-wop some over the day and just pick away after which, you understand, after which we’ll get aggressive again next week.

But let’s buy like a pair hundred thousand a day this week.

That is like what I witnessed. And I feel that is form of how that, you understand, it has the large move up, after which they form of support it.

But they’re often not done.

They’re similar to form of supporting me at buying somewhat because like they should buy so much more.

In order that they just buy somewhat and that is form of what builds that little mini two to 3 week base or whatever that I speak about.

But then you definitely get the blokes like me who’re on it.

After they’re inside, I feel you understand the short interest on this, but I just know the kind of name.

There’s still shorts on this thing after which they realize like — Oh crap, like we’ve got to start out to get more aggressive.

Persons are beginning to notice our stock.

We found it first.

Like we all know the story.

We comprehend it all. Where are we?

I ensure we get enough of this thing.

And I feel we’re seeing loads of stocks where we’re entering a greater market.

We had the large caps form of led 12 months certainly one of the low and now we’re seeing money flow into the small mid-caps since the market is individuals are form of beginning to consider available in the market.

In order that they’re beginning to tackle more risk.

I feel we’ll see more situations like that, that, you understand, for somebody like me, if I can spot these change of characters where I can find that big buyer, after which if I can, you understand, like, I all the time do it right.

You understand, I sometimes think I got it right and I get stopped out, like actually greater than I do get it right.

But when I can get a few them right, where I form of pick up on that little consolidation and get on board for the trend.

If I can get a cup of affection and right and possibly get three or five really good names in 1 / 4, that is all I want.

So that is what I mean by that weekly change of character is to identify that massive buyer within the stock and understand he cannot get every thing he needs in a month.

He’ll probably be supporting that thing.

Drastically changes within the name, then he might change into a seller.

Then that is it.

You bought to observe out.

That vast volume on the weekly is commonly not a one-week thing.

Even in the event you don’t see the large shot of O’Riordan again like that initial time, he’s probably still in there picking away.

That is great since it provides support where a small guy like me can…

Discover a spot is basically how I give it some thought spot the quantity, spot that change in character, after which just try to search out a spot.

Sometimes it takes a few tries.

Sometimes it takes three or 4 times, but until you see that stock do something fallacious, where big volume is available in on the sell side, so long as it’s acting healthy, you retain trying to offer it a go.

No less than that is how I approach it.

Rayner (1:46:21)

Nice, that was a extremely good explanation of the weekly change within the character.

For those of the audience listening and there isn’t any likelihood providers, just do some, do not be lazy, I am going to Tradingview, and plug within the dates, right?

The ticker that Oliver has mentioned, is the APP app, right?

Through the dates that he shared earlier, you possibly can just about see what he’s saying.

So yeah, Oliver, one other query, I feel says.

I’m curious that earlier you spoke about NVIDIA, right?

You almost said NVIDIA, yeah, I feel NVIDIA, you mentioned that you simply exited most of your position, then you definitely are also in the gang.

I used to be each charts earlier.

They each, the move, right, and the magnitude each seem pretty good, right?

All broke out higher.

But Kraut, I have never heard you talking about exits yet, or have you ever exceeded a certain of the position for Kraut?

Oliver (1:47:06)

So, I’d say which can be unique in that, form of the 2 names that like, were the primary form of liquid moving names of this.

You understand, I form of think that this rally began or like fillers through the bull market or whatever you ought to call it form of began at the top of October or November 1st once we got here out of this correction.

The 2 names that to me were the leading names are Crowd and Meta.

So in the event you were to go take a look at Crowd, Crowd tried to interrupt out on October sixth and I used to be the long Crowd on October sixth.

I felt really good about it. It had a giant volume on the sixth, or sorry, on the fifth, or the fifth is when for me it broke out.

It had a giant volume the fourth, or sorry, the sixth, the sixth, I’m sorry.

The massive volume on the ninth and I used to be like…

“Oh man, I nailed this thing”

Because time will get to October, I just like the month of October, there are sometimes loads of volumes in October.

Then it just kinda couldn’t get going and it form of rolled back over on the nineteenth, the twentieth, the twenty first.

I feel I ended up selling this thing on the twenty fifth, and I used to be like super disenchanted.

I feel I made a few points, but it surely was form of certainly one of those things where after I bought it, I used to be like, I got my hands on something good, you understand?

Then I ended up selling it for a number of points, and I remember just form of being somewhat bit like, rattling.

But then that’s what happened.

It got here down and it tightened up below moving averages again.

When the market buttoned on them, this thing had an inside buy on 1027, so an inside bar is similar to when the day trades contained in the trade of yesterday.

It’s form of like a micro view on contraction volatility, you understand, it tightened up versus yesterday after which the following day, on 1030, it tightened up.

It was contained in the bar of 1027.

So I call my double inside.

Once I see double inside, I’m like…

“All right”

Especially on a reputation that I like, you understand, especially that I like.

Again, I’m like 1031, form of the day before the market form of moved.

The market had, you understand, the market had not desired to go down anymore, in my view.

I’m like 1030, 1031.

But I also wasn’t sure if it desired to go up.

But then I logged in and I knew it desired to go up.

So the sensation is that it began to maneuver on 10.6, however the market held it back.

Same with Meta and unfortunately, I used to be long Meta the identical way I used to be long Crowd.

I didn’t get Meta back the best way I got Crowd back, and now I’m attempting to work out easy methods to get into Meta up here proved to be a fairly large mistake on my part.

But the best way that I used to be in a position to get in crowds so early, by the point the video broke out, the gang was already up like 100 points, 50%.

The market was at a totally different just like the underlying index was at a totally different point in its rally.

Whereas, Right away, look, I do not know what the market’s going to do, but I can see the market form of consolidating here more or possibly form of going up somewhat more, but somewhat bit more of the choppy fashion.

Sort of once we get to the best way I said in like October, once we get to love mid-February-ish, possibly late February, sometimes early February.

You often get some form of seasonal correction.

In order that’s partially playing into what I’m doing somewhat more, I suppose.

So NVIDIA broke out later.

Whereas Crowd without delay, if Crowd pulls back 10% or something, it just doesn’t affect me that much.

I had taken some off Like, you understand, I do reduce somewhat bit, but due to what I used to be in a position to get crime, it has been a fairly easy trade for me.

Just and it’s just nice to have against the law to me doesn’t move the best way the video does.

It’s somewhat bit slower of a mover, but it surely’s nice to form of have that form of core name in your account.

So like in the event you take a look at the gang, it’s gone up the 20-day moving average.

Whereas Nvidia has form of been a straight line up the five days, but now Nvidia could pull back to the 20 days and I may very well be buying it back off the 20 days.

I could buy it now as a pullback versus an entire big base prefer it was originally.

But it surely has to do with the form of index market cycle I used to be in a position to get long crowd versus Nvidia didn’t break out for.

You understand, one other two months.

I used to be already up 50% in the gang.

In order that’s a part of, after which overall, I larger picture like after I take a look at the weeklies and the monthlies in the marketplace, I like how the market looks.

Due to where I’m a protracted crowd, and in addition due to form of the personality of the gang that it’s somewhat slower mover.

Only for me and much like Nvidia, I’ve trained and crowded so much, like so much.

I’m just very comfortable with it.

I do not know if that makes any sense.

But for instance, I’m long another stocks that I’m less comfortable with, so I’ve waved smaller positions.

I’m long like Snow, Snowflake, waved smaller positions.

Whenever you’re in a much smaller position, it is also easier to form of give things room naturally.

But the best way I traded within the video, the video where I’m in, it was often my biggest position.

So, subsequently, I form of take my hits on it, after which I get back on it.

But like me, my form of runner on the video may be as big as my snow position.

You understand what I mean?

So I do not know. I do not know if that is a great answer in any respect, but that is what I’m doing.

So, you understand, yeah, I’m sorry if that is not the very best answer on the earth.

Rayner (1:54:11)

I can understand that because coming from a discretionary trading standpoint, not every thing can exactly be quantified, right, for a quantitative trader, unlike a quantitative trader, yeah?

Oliver (1:54:20)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But it surely comes right down to, I mean, crime broke out two months before in a video.

An enormous cushion on it.

Rayner (1:54:33)

All right.

By the best way, Oliver, without delay we’re approaching the two-hour mark, and I need to be respectful of your time.

So how do you are feeling?

Do you are feeling that you simply still need to go on?

Oliver (1:54:40)

Perhaps one other half-hour or so?

Rayner (1:54:42)

Sure.

Let’s do one other half-hour.

Thanks in your time.

I appreciate it.

Oliver (1:54:46)

Yeah, no, obviously. I’m having fun with it.

That is a unique kind of interview, so I’m having fun with it so much more.

Rayner (1:54:53)

I’m blissful to listen to that.

So possibly let’s talk somewhat bit about NVIDIA.

You mentioned it.

Had an enormous runout and you understand if there is a pullback right you may be trying to enter.

So possibly let’s form of like going into the precise you understand what exactly are you in search of on a pullback before you enter a trade for instance for NVIDIA if it makes a pullback?

Oliver (1:55:13)

Sure so I’ll just speak about form of what I’m considering on the video without delay because that is the easiest method it’s just all right for me to give it some thought.

So after I take a look at NVIDIA…

Rayner (1:55:27)

So for the audience who’re wondering, without delay it’s currently February 2024, February 2024, in order that’s form of like because sometimes they give the impression of being at this for the last 12 months later, so put things in perspective, yeah?

Please go ahead.

Oliver (1:55:37)

Sure,

so I’ll try to make use of dance as I described this.

So I believed the movie was January of 20-

Rayner (1:55:55)

Sorry Oliver, possibly as a substitute of 1 six, you possibly can say like, you understand, six of January.

In order that they form of like, understand whether you- Oh yeah, that is a great idea.

Oliver (1:56:00)

They keep manually going right down to January, and it’s what we did, we form of ran it on.

It’s funny, this now, the move looks so small.

But on the time, it was moving from 150 to 230, which is a couple of 50% move.

Very much like without delay. Almost the identical move.

Then what happened is I actually, exited my position similarly.

I exited your entire position and we form of got here back to the 20-day moving average into earnings.

On February twenty third of 2023, we had earnings and we docked up on the 20-day moving average, you understand, about 10% or so.

Which on the time gave the impression of a large gap.

I take a look at it now and it’s like, it’s barely anything.

Then what happened is we went sideways.

So the market was in a correction then, the index was corrected. I wanna say…

I do not remember the precise dates, however the index is corrected from possibly the primary or second week of February 2023 until the second week of March 2023.

So, moving to the purpose of earnings in the midst of the correction it gapped up and went sideways for about three weeks.

What it’ll do, is it got here down into the 20-period exponential moving average on 313.

So the 20-period moving average is form of like mine, I prefer to buy off the 20-day if in a situation like this where stocks acting well.

Then importantly, it never filled that gap up.

I find it irresistible when stocks don’t fill their gaps.

So I call, I say, big gap up equals the road’s call off guard.

It’s what I mean by that’s, Wall Street was expecting X variety of earnings, Nvidia reported Y and the explanation Nvidia didn’t report the gap is that Wall Street needed to purchase shares.

You understand what I mean?

They were like…

“Oh crap, we underestimated this thing”

Then, so I began getting long this thing again, right in there, you understand.

And, I should, you understand, look, I attempted to get long this thing, you understand, just like the day or two after, it just didn’t form of work, I got all of it.

I do know that I attempted this thing on three, two once we supported on the ten days, and it went up and it just form of did not have power, and I got out of it for a scratch.

But then, you understand, try number three, like I said, sometimes it will possibly take a few tries.

I got in it there and it worked again and so form of my mentality on Nvidia right here is now in – it’s February nineteenth, 2024.

Tomorrow will likely be the twentieth of February.

I checked out Nvidia and it broke out of a six-month consolidation in the beginning of the 12 months.

To me, that is what I call a stage two base.

So anyone who’s read William O’Neill, stocks form of move in bases, third stage, fourth stage.

The primary base in January of 2023 was a stage one base that ended up being a big inverted head and shoulders pattern that was like an eighth-month pattern.

Then the second pattern was like a six-month, I feel you called it like a…

Ascent and Triangle, you understand, whatever we would like to call it, it was like a six-month consolidation.

We have moved about 50% and we’ve not had any pullback here.

So my mentality going into earnings is I will… I’m…

Because I’m attempting to work on form of holding positions somewhat longer, I’m going to carry a bit of this time, about one-sixth, one-seventh of my position.

Whereas the primary go around, I’d cashed all of it in and I got back in.

Now I’m gonna hold some because I just wanna attempt to work on that.

If it were to wanna gap down on earnings, I’d just let it find support wherever which may be.

Does it pull back greater than I expected and are available back to the 50 days?

That may be far more than I expected, but it surely’s possible.

Does it pull right into a 20 after which support and take a while to base out?

Whatever it does, I will wait for that after which form of if it gaps down, I probably won’t go as aggressively as if I find a spot as much as the reality.

But when it gaps down, I’ll form of get it began again.

Perhaps get that 161.7 as much as like a 50, you understand, half or a half.

Then if it worked out from there and it arrange again with these highs.

That I’d look to run back to it. So that may form of go down.

So now my gap-ups could be similar to where I used to be in March of 2023, where we’re down above, we form of go sidewards somewhat, after which we arrange and go higher.

So, you understand, we arrange on a Wednesday evening, so we still have two days here.

I’d move right.

I like to see this thing pull back.

Like to see this pullback.

A part of it, just starts the week, going into earnings.

Because certainly one of the things that I feel, in the event you take a look at the weekly chart on Nvidia, so the week of February twelfth, 2024, last week, it has a dodgy candle.

It is a dodgy candle, but in the identical way, I exploit the ten the 20, and the 9 within the every day, I take a look at the identical thing on the weekly.

I also take a look at the 5-EMA of the weekly, which the 5-e-ma is just in regards to the 20-e-ma on the every day. Like they find yourself being in regards to the same thing.

I feel in the event you go study loads of big moving stocks, they often hold the 5-e-ma they usually often hold the 20-e-ma for that intermediate-term multi-month move. So I’d like to see this thing pull back.

If this does, like, if we’re in a stock that, like, not that many individuals are initially of the move, but then everybody, like, everybody loves it and it will possibly’t go down without delay.

Then, you understand, everybody’s going to carry their hands because, you understand, they will be the following one within the meal or whatever.

But then that is a protracted approach to go to alter their mind and additionally they.

So I’d like to see that occur to you and get this thing closer to the 20-year bank prefer it did last 12 months.

If it does that, truthfully, certainly one of the things I’m considering is that if it does the identical thing, do I even have to back somewhat more of what I took off before earnings?

I’m unsure about that, but that’s something that I’m considering if it plays out that way.

But when it were to drag back after which gap up on earnings.

The thing is, even when it went back up, it would not be so prolonged from the 20 days.

Then if it will possibly seek the advice of somewhat.

It’ll have a pleasant setup.

It might be ideal if it didn’t cover what it did.

Last 12 months, and I feel we’re arrange.

To where that may occur and that, you understand, the earnings must are available.

Good. Obviously.

But I feel if we were to form of, let’s just say that we were to interrupt higher, we were, you understand, tomorrow or, you understand, Tuesday or whatever.

I form of feel like with where the WUQA is and stuff, if that were to occur, which I actually, I do not think that is going to occur, but when it were to occur, then I form of feel like regardless of the number is, it’d gap down.

If I needed to do a multi-prediction here, I’m beginning to think that it chops possibly somewhat lower into the number after which we’ll see what the number is.

I’m hoping for a gap-up because I just find stocks so much easier to trade cleaner once they gap up they usually haven’t any resistance.

So even when I purchase it back higher, I do not care. It’ll just be one other, it’ll be round two.

But that is what I’m hoping. I’m hoping we get somewhat pullback here.

I feel that may make sense.

Just form of based on the way it’s trading.

I feel, you understand, in the event you were to drag up a 65-minute chart, which is what I take a look at, it’s form of lost some momentum here since that February twelfth high.

So I take a look at this stuff called brightening resistance lines.

They’re similar to trend lines I draw. I feel there’s form of an art to it.

However the day of, I suppose it could be 1-24. I do not know, unfortunately, they do not show me the dates in my 65-minute, but I feel on 1-24 after which it should be like February fifth after which February twelfth.

There’s like a line that connects those three and on the 65 minute, I can see it, you understand, very clearly.

Probably once we hit that broadening line on the twelfth.

You understand, it may last some momentum they usually’re almost form of cramming over into the garments on Friday, which makes me think we could get somewhat little bit of a pullback here.

You understand that I do not trade that setup.

So if it happens, like, it isn’t something that I will be involved in.

But it surely’s what makes me think there’s there is a likelihood that that would occur before earnings.

But that is what I’m in search of.

So the gap is down.

I’ll form of let it settle.

I will be less fascinated with really getting involved in a spot down, although I feel it’ll get supported.

It’s just less what I’m comfortable with and I’ll form of look to place some back on form of when it pushes out.

Then if it form of gets back up into the highs again, that is after I would look to get back on it, really add back what I had after which if we gap up depending, it’ll depend form of what happens to start out the week.

But when we, you understand, simply because it’ll affect how prolonged we’re on the report if we gap up.

But when we gap up, you understand, I’d like them to be in search of some form of little mini consolidation within the range of possibly, you understand, possibly one to 3 weeks.

It’ll also depend, you understand, if the index is correcting or if the index goes higher.

That’ll likely affect how the Nvidia pattern builds out after earnings.

So there are some variables, but that is generally my fight process.

Then I just must form of wait and see the way it plays out and take a look at to do my best to position the correct way.

Rayner (2:07:34)

Okay, so for instance, for instance, only one example, for instance Nvidia gets up, right?

Then it starts to consolidate probably be two to 3 weeks.

So possibly relative strength, it looks pretty good, right?

Relative to the index and also you’re trying to enter now.

So do you enter based on the every day timeframe or is it more on the 65-minute timeframe?

Oliver (2:07:51)

Yeah, just like the 65 minutes.

So I’ll look to, keep the 65-minute 20 EMA after which keep the five.

So like I’ll keep the five, 10, and 20 from the every day timeframe.

I chart that on my 65 minutes.

I find that the 65-minute 20 after which the five, that they’ll form of like pro-line price and be a great area to only form of see how things tighten up against.

I will be referencing that and looking out only for like a standard pattern that you simply would see on the every day, I’ll just be in search of that to construct on the 65-minute.

Whether that be somewhat mini bull flag or an inside bar that then breaks higher. I’m doing the identical thing on the 65-minute as I’d on the every day.

It’s just you get more bars on the 65-minute.

So what takes a month to occur on the every day might occur in a few days on the 65-minute.

But it surely’s inside that every day pattern.

So it’s just form of marrying up the timeframes and trying to search out a spot.

Rayner (2:09:12)

Got it and what about, I feel stop loss, where would you then resolve to set your stop loss in your first position?

Oliver (2:09:18)

Yeah, so I’m gonna do it based on where I get entangled on the 65 minute, which might be the explanation, like after I gave that example on the app earlier, where I said — I could get smoked on this, it’s because I do not have like a stop there.

I’m not the very best at buying huge gaps.

Although I do know that is change into a really, highly regarded strategy and you purchase the gap, put the stock on the lower of the day.

I mean, everybody makes it look really easy, but I’m sorry.

I’m sorry, but in practice, it isn’t as easy as all of them make it look.

Whereas I prefer to form of let the stock move up on the 65 minutes after which form of let it pull back and buy the upper low on the 65 minutes.

I do not think to form of buy you understand, when things are calm, you understand, I don’t desire to be chasing a spot.

But I need to be working so that you can calm pullback where I should buy some goes up. I said…

“Okay, possibly I’m onto something there”

Then, you understand, I can, I should buy somewhat more on possibly the following pullback.

Um, after which when the strike lets me know, I, can go after it.

Um, but that is yeah, I prefer to use the 65-minute to administer my risk.

By after I buy, I can keep a technical stop below those bars.

So I’m often putting my stocks based on the actual bars on the 65-minute.

I’m form of using the moving averages as a guide for me. Like…

“Hey, this 65-minute bullfrog may look good, but it surely’s like 3% above the five days”

So even when it looks good for an hour or two, you are probably gonna get shaken out since it’s just too prolonged.

So I try not to purchase too prolonged from the moving averages.

Rayner (2:11:10)

Right.

Also, I feel we talked somewhat bit about exits earlier, but for instance you enter, and also you set your stop.

So what about exits possibly, you understand, where do you often begin to unload possibly a portion of your positions?

Oliver (2:11:20)

Yeah.

So, like within the video, I’ll trade pretty big.

Then what I’ll do is that if it gets moving for like every week or two and it gets somewhat stretched just due to…

You understand, I put so much more on that than every other name.

I’ll feel like a thin-off simply because like I made a fairly good profit on it.

Then I’ve still got a giant position.

Like still, it’s always my biggest position even after I take that third off.

Then I’ll form of let the remaining part trade and so actually this rally within the video, I took like a 3rd off at 700 or so.

That, it would not have been 700.

About six, six twenties, six twenties is where I sold that third.

So it was about five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten.

It was about, you understand, 11 days, 12 days into its trend.

I took a couple of third off and that’s what I ended up doing it consolidated for 5 or 6 days and it built a mini base and I began a second position.

Rayner (2:12:28)

Nice. [Laughs]

Oliver (2:12:29)

And so I had two times my first position.

Then the second position is what I did with the second position in that broad world.

I took the time of the second position off because I mean the second position is starting later so I desired to take greater than a 3rd, you understand after which I had like two-thirds of my first position and half of my second position.

Then, you understand, I began to appreciate that the momentum was running out.

The last two to 3, two days I began reducing that form of piece because I used to be hoping it could just form of keep going.

But then I noticed — Okay, they’ve gapped it up twice they usually’ve sold the gap open.

They may be done buying it until after earnings.

Then I began to cut back my position and now mentally for me, like I said…although I even have some, it’s form of like over for me and now we’re like — All right.

How can we gain a plan for after-earnings?

The piece that I even have left, I will likely be somewhat bit more, form of like that crowded position where I’m gonna use the 20-day more on it and I’m gonna give it a likelihood to ride that 20-day.

I’ll give it a likelihood to drag back 10% or whatever, simply because I’ve taken my money out of it and…

You understand, this stuff can go further than you think that.

Rayner (2:14:02)

So that you mentioned that you think that you exited the primary position around 620.

So were there any patterns or clues that made you ought to exit a portion at around 620?

Oliver (2:14:13)

I mean, a part of it was similar to, you understand, I need to sell that third, you understand, I have the desire to make a fairly good profit on it.

That is form of prefer it.

You understand, you may have that little tale on January twenty fourth, which

That to me isn’t in any respect like…

“Hey, this thing’s going to reverse”

It’s similar to, hey, on this primary there, you understand, this might be a fairly great spot.

You understand, it’s.

You understand, it isn’t as much of like an enormous signal because it is.

Like, you understand, I need to ensure that I, that I booked some at a solid price.

Um, after which I’ve got plenty left to, you understand, ride and, you understand, I attempted to be somewhat larger where it’s like something like.

Like even crowd I take larger positions but not within the video but it surely’s something like snow or something where I treat it more as like a just normal size position.

Like I’m not doing anything there.

I’m just form of letting that chop around and I’m writing it up the 10-day or the 20-day and you understand loads of people ask me these questions so I’ll just form of ask it for you.

I never used the 10-day or the 20-day and the reply is that a great book that I like to recommend.

This book, you understand…

“Trade Like an O’Neil Disciple”

I like this book.

Once I talked about it, like, get like…

I am unable to remember the precise timeframe, however the story is what I feel was on the stack.

It’s like, you understand, possibly 4 to 6 weeks into this move and the best way that I judged that was if it’s form of had two pullbacks.

You understand, did it pull back and find support on the 10-day?

Or do a pullback and find support on the 20-day, like, what’s the character of the name?

You understand, some names move quicker they usually hold the ten days.

Some names move slower they usually hold the 20 days after which the opposite thing I’ll do too, is for instance, the gang is an incredible example of this.

For the vast majority of crowds move, it was like initially, it was holding the ten days after which it moved enough where it form of built like in the event you’re support and resistance, it form of built.

Like a giant support shelf and I’ll do stuff like, you understand — Hey if the 20-day can catch as much as that support shelf, I’m gonna switch to the 20-day moving average because I wanna try to offer this thing a likelihood to carry that support shelf.

For instance, like without delay, in the gang specifically, you understand, the gang form of like got going again in the beginning of January, it pulled back and held the 10-day on January seventeenth.

Then held the 10-day again on January twenty sixth, then held the 10-day again on January thirty first, February 2nd, February fifth, February sixth. After which really, you understand, that is form of unique in that on 2-13, it had a giant gap down that held the 20-day, but it surely closed above the 10-day.

So some people now might say, you understand, are you moving the 10-day?

That is what it has been respecting.

For me, that 310 level has change into a giant support shelf because that was the high on January twenty fourth after which we based under there on January twenty fifth, February fifth, and February sixth, after which we found support there on this gap down on 213.

So now that the 20-day is as much as that level, although it’s 20 points lower, which is like, you understand, on this name, it is a, you understand, that is like a 6% pullback or whatever.

Like I need to try to make use of the 20-day now because I do know that is an enormous level and so I need to offer this thing a likelihood to carry that.

You understand my goal is to try to stick with my names if I feel they’re good names, not necessarily to sell them.

Then let’s just say, let’s just be hypothetical here.

For example that…We’ll tighten here today after which push higher and begin to carry the 10-day again and we form of get away from that support shelf, then I would move back to the 10-day.

There’s somewhat little bit of an art to it, I suppose, and I also say there’s an art to it and I’m not all the time right.

I attempt to listen to the moving average of notes after which I attempt to listen to when the 20 days get above or catch as much as a giant support level.

Then give the name room to the 20-Day, just in order that I can attempt to keep on with it.

Rayner (2:19:15)

Okay, I get what you are attempting to say since it sometimes is determined by how the market is behaving on the moving average, right?

Sometimes multiple confluences make you think that…Hey, now the 20 days is form of more appropriate than the ten days.

So let’s go together with that.

It’s all about being versatile and adapting to the present market conditions.

Oliver (2:19:32)

Of course.

Rayner (2:19:33)

So, okay, you understand, I even have a ton of questions more to ask you, but you understand, I think you might be drained.

So form of like, let’s move into the closing section, after which guess what?

We will all the time do a future episode, right?

In the longer term, yeah?

Okay, so query, what are a few of the biggest lessons that you have learned which can be rarely spoken about?

It doesn’t must be trading.

It may well be live, just anything.

Oliver (2:19:57)

 Yeah, OK. Oh, man.

Well, I feel in trading, I feel probably the most vital things to do in trading is work out easy methods to not trade.

To work out when the market’s not good for what you are doing and never trade.

Then also, work out when the market is sweet for what you are doing and let your positions work.

You understand, I feel especially within the era of social media and I feel everybody desires to trade zero DTE options and make like 1,000,000 percent in a month and retire or whatever.

I feel there’s this pressure to make things occur quickly when in point of fact, I feel that is the exact opposite of what works.

I’m not saying that stuff doesn’t work, but I feel specializing in learning when the market’s not good for you and never trading after which learning easy methods to keep on with your positions once they are working is…

Something that I feel is missed so much and form of a few of what you see on the market. So like learning easy methods to not trade in other ways is essential.

Then I feel similar to in life, I mean, definitely in trading, in trading, you may have to learn easy methods to bounce back and take care of setbacks.

Like each step of the best way for me in life and in trading there’s been setbacks.

So you may have to learn easy methods to bounce back after which you may have to learn easy methods to form of learn out of your mistakes since it’s inevitable.

You’ll be able to’t avoid that.

So you may have to learn easy methods to make the most of it.

Rayner (2:22:09)

Now that you may have children yourself, I mean, they’re still very young.

But what would you say are a few of the key lessons, and values that you simply wish that they are in a position to take from you?

Oliver (2:22:23)

Yeah, so I mean.

You understand, I just attempt to be honest after which attempt to do the correct thing.

I mean, you are not all the time going to do the correct thing, but I feel in the event you’re doing the correct thing consistently over time, you are going to come out ahead.

Then I’d say, Tom, like certainly one of the things that I’ve form of been in a position to learn and understand because, like, you understand, we were so wealthy after I was younger after which we did not have any money.

Then I’ve done pretty much, but I own some real estate and stuff in some lower-income areas.

I’ve seen loads of different demographics is that cash really, I generally don’t think 100% makes you blissful.

I’m not going to take a seat there like certainly one of these individuals who say it doesn’t make it easier because I feel it does. But…

Should you’re not blissful without money, I do not think you are going to be blissful with money.

So I feel you may have to learn to value the things that matter in your life.

I feel two of the influences on me after I grew up were probably these more blue-collar families where the dads form of…

Certainly one of them is sick without delay.

So I would get somewhat emotional, but they’re really like their family was like every thing to them they usually got a lot joy out of all of it they usually weren’t these millionaire guys on TV, but like on daily basis they were stoked to rise up.

They couldn’t wait to form of see what their kids were going to do.

They were at every game.

They were doing every thing. And so, you understand, gentlemen, look.

I feel specifically in trading, and a man who’s been a mentor to me who I trade with now, who’s much older and he got here up trading on the NYC, he was telling me how he knows guys who like their number 20 years ago was like…

“Oh, if I make 5 million or whatever, that is all I want”

They have been chasing the number for 20 years now and their kids have grown up without them being there.

You understand what I mean?

Like mentally, even in the event that they were there physically.

So, you understand, similar to don’t form of miss the vital things, you understand, only for material things.

Even after I’m trading, you understand, that’s form of the scoreboard, you understand, you possibly can’t get consumed by it.

Rayner (2:25:07)

That hits me hard too, man, because I even have kids myself, right?

Often I…

Such as you said, you are there but you are not there.

You are there physically but mentally you may not be there.

So definitely a excellent reminder for me as well.

So thanks for that, Oliver.

The rest you ought to cover man that we didn’t touch on today, anything?

Oliver (2:25:26)

No, I mean, this was great.

I enjoyed this interview.

So thanks for having me and I’d be blissful to return back anytime.

Rayner (2:25:37)

Yeah, we might like to have you ever back as well. I had loads of questions like while you mentioned your debt, it blew up.

I need to listen to a few of the lessons.

I’d prefer to hear about changes in market conditions, and the way you’re a debt.

But all this, possibly we will do it one other time.

But for now, where can others find and connect with you?

Oliver (2:25:51)

Yeah, so I’m on Twitter.

My name now’s Oliver Kell, underscore.

Then I write a newsletter called The Swing Report.

www.theswingreport.com

I do my best to only form of highlight my thoughts in the marketplace.

Sometimes it’s probably somewhat more chaotic than other people’s newsletters because I keep it pretty raw.

But that is where you will discover me if you may have any interesting form of understanding of how I trade and that is it.

Rayner (2:26:30)

Awesome.

I’ll put all those links and resources in the outline below for the audience.

For now, Oliver, I comprehend it’s late for you, so thanks a lot once more in your time.

I appreciate you.

I enjoyed this session so much.

I learned a lot from how is it like trading on the ground, the pit, what you search for within the stocks, relative strengths, increase a base, buying at the primary breakout, and waiting for a pullback to get a secondary entry.

It’s an incredible session.

So thanks once more,

Oliver. I appreciate you.

Oliver (2:26:57)

Thanks, Rayner. I appreciate it.

Rayner (2:27:00)

Thanks.

Thanks and bye-bye and rest well.

Oliver (2:27:08)

All right, see you.